THE MYSTERY OF THE ALL-WAVE 27 EXPLAINED – MAYBE! - EH Scott Radio Enthusiasts2024-03-28T22:55:18Zhttps://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?feed=yes&xn_auth=nohttps://www.radiomuseum.org/r…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2022-01-01:3925821:Comment:1211442022-01-01T22:14:33.595ZCarlos Insahttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/Carlos_Insa_Gracia
<p><a href="https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_pa_with_10_12_changer.html" target="_blank">https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_pa_with_10_12_changer.html</a></p>
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<p><a href="https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_10.html" target="_blank">https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_10.html</a></p>
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<p><a href="http://www.theradiofox.com/phono/gm291/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.theradiofox.com/phono/gm291/index.html</a></p>
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<p><a href="https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_pa_with_10_12_changer.html" target="_blank">https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_pa_with_10_12_changer.html</a></p>
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<p><a href="https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_10.html" target="_blank">https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/capehart_10.html</a></p>
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<p><a href="http://www.theradiofox.com/phono/gm291/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.theradiofox.com/phono/gm291/index.html</a></p>
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<p></p> David - From about 1931 well…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2022-01-01:3925821:Comment:1210492022-01-01T20:25:37.575ZDavid C. Polandhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/DavidCPoland
<p>David - From about 1931 well into 1935, the Scott changer was a Capehart model 10-12 and a suffix like C.</p>
<p>Scott price list name is the Automatic 10 Record Changer. Riders has 7 pages of this Capehart detailed info: Radiotron page 525 (which I have) or Riders vol 2 per the big Riders index.</p>
<p>- I have a Scott Automatic 10 with my Scott FIFTEEN - in the WELLINGTON console (90) offered from 1931 to 1936. A photo of mine is shown in the 2nd edition Scott Guide on page 112. My…</p>
<p>David - From about 1931 well into 1935, the Scott changer was a Capehart model 10-12 and a suffix like C.</p>
<p>Scott price list name is the Automatic 10 Record Changer. Riders has 7 pages of this Capehart detailed info: Radiotron page 525 (which I have) or Riders vol 2 per the big Riders index.</p>
<p>- I have a Scott Automatic 10 with my Scott FIFTEEN - in the WELLINGTON console (90) offered from 1931 to 1936. A photo of mine is shown in the 2nd edition Scott Guide on page 112. My Capehart changer is complete but unrestored- 10 or 12 inch records- Magnetic pick up - 78 or 33 RPM (for the RCA or Columbia talking books of the early 1930's).</p>
<p>- Next to the above photo is photo of my single speed ERLA branded phono from my ORLEANS highboy with a 1931 2-DIAL Scott. Scott offered this phono from 1929 at least to 1932. The motor says it is a Green Racer. Has a magnetic pick up that works, but the rubber needle suspension needs replacement. Automatic shutoff is crude,</p>
<p>Has a radio/phono switch is on the phono platform near a separate phono volume control.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>Guess Scott preferred to say silent about the correct name for changers he supplied.</p>
<p>*Kinda strayed from main AW-27 topic.</p> David … I did some looking at…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2022-01-01:3925821:Comment:1210482022-01-01T17:23:02.133ZDavid Wilsonhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/dwilsonzianetcom
<p>David … I did some looking at the Scott price lists and at the accessories brochure in the “Info Archives” here. The 1933, 1934 & <span> </span>1935 price list offers a 10-record auto record changer with several cabinets starting in these <span> </span>price lists. The 1936 price lists just say automatic record changers. Unfortunately, Scott does not say which 10 record auto changer they are offering but the RC-1 photograph is shown in a 1935 Accessories brochure but no mention it’s a…</p>
<p>David … I did some looking at the Scott price lists and at the accessories brochure in the “Info Archives” here. The 1933, 1934 & <span> </span>1935 price list offers a 10-record auto record changer with several cabinets starting in these <span> </span>price lists. The 1936 price lists just say automatic record changers. Unfortunately, Scott does not say which 10 record auto changer they are offering but the RC-1 photograph is shown in a 1935 Accessories brochure but no mention it’s a Garrard RC-1. The changer is listed for $75. <a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RSs9TSToGXg-gGQPuBFsh_Hxdihjz3lT" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1RSs9TSToGXg-gGQPuBFsh_Hxdihjz3lT</a></p>
<p><br/> <cite>David C. Poland said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=3925821%3ATopic%3A121223&page=3#3925821Comment121245"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>First thought was 1938 was a bit late for an RC-1 Garrard. So reviewed my Scott literature.</p>
<p>The Garrard RC-1 seems to have been a Scott option from late 1937 until early 1940.</p>
<p>Previously, Scott offered the General Industries "Flinger" model 1936 into mid 1937.</p>
<p>Several Scott News issues from 1937 to 1940 show the Garrard RC-1 and photos. A couple include a long list of Garrard RC-1 features. See Scott News Vol 11, No 4, page 10-11 for RC-1 features. Scott sometimes refers to it as the Scott Automatic. With the magnetic pick up you might consider it a Garrard RM-1. For remote control equipped receivers, Scott could option the the changer for keyboard control.</p>
<p>I have a late 1940 Scott price list for the FM Philharmonic & FM Phantom which is my earliest which lists as options the Garrard RM-10 or RM-30. The difference being the RM-30 handles mixed 10 and 12 inch records. The RC- series had crystal pickups, which Scott also offered.</p>
<p>An internet search of vintage Garrard changer dates is poor indeed, but suggests US shipment began sometime 1937 and the newer models in 1940. So Scott was up to date seeking leading edge phonographs.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>John F Riders book <strong><em>Automatic Record Changers and Recorders</em></strong> (1941) covers RC- 1, RC-10, RC-30 and more.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I have two unrestored Garrard RC-30's on the shelf, one with crystal pick up and another with a magnetic pick up having a Scott tag on the motor.</p>
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</blockquote> David .... Thanks for the inf…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2022-01-01:3925821:Comment:1211402022-01-01T04:48:23.772ZDavid Wilsonhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/dwilsonzianetcom
<p>David .... Thanks for the info. on Garrard record changers!! I have the the original service manual for my RC-1. On the front of the cover of this RC-1 manual it say it was granted three patent numbers in 1932. It is my understanding that this Garrard changer was the first automatic record changers for the company. I will scan this manual when I find time and send it to Kent so it can be posted and shared with members her in the "Info Archives." (Cover attached below)<br></br> <br></br> <cite>David…</cite></p>
<p>David .... Thanks for the info. on Garrard record changers!! I have the the original service manual for my RC-1. On the front of the cover of this RC-1 manual it say it was granted three patent numbers in 1932. It is my understanding that this Garrard changer was the first automatic record changers for the company. I will scan this manual when I find time and send it to Kent so it can be posted and shared with members her in the "Info Archives." (Cover attached below)<br/> <br/> <cite>David C. Poland said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?id=3925821%3ATopic%3A121223&page=3#3925821Comment121245"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>First thought was 1938 was a bit late for an RC-1 Garrard. So reviewed my Scott literature.</p>
<p>The Garrard RC-1 seems to have been a Scott option from late 1937 until early 1940.</p>
<p>Previously, Scott offered the General Industries "Flinger" model 1936 into mid 1937.</p>
<p>Several Scott News issues from 1937 to 1940 show the Garrard RC-1 and photos. A couple include a long list of Garrard RC-1 features. See Scott News Vol 11, No 4, page 10-11 for RC-1 features. Scott sometimes refers to it as the Scott Automatic. With the magnetic pick up you might consider it a Garrard RM-1. For remote control equipped receivers, Scott could option the the changer for keyboard control.</p>
<p>I have a late 1940 Scott price list for the FM Philharmonic & FM Phantom which is my earliest which lists as options the Garrard RM-10 or RM-30. The difference being the RM-30 handles mixed 10 and 12 inch records. The RC- series had crystal pickups, which Scott also offered.</p>
<p>An internet search of vintage Garrard changer dates is poor indeed, but suggests US shipment began sometime 1937 and the newer models in 1940. So Scott was up to date seeking leading edge phonographs.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>John F Riders book <strong><em>Automatic Record Changers and Recorders</em></strong> (1941) covers RC- 1, RC-10, RC-30 and more.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I have two unrestored Garrard RC-30's on the shelf, one with crystal pick up and another with a magnetic pick up having a Scott tag on the motor.</p>
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</blockquote> First thought was 1938 was a…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2022-01-01:3925821:Comment:1212452022-01-01T02:45:45.174ZDavid C. Polandhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/DavidCPoland
<p>First thought was 1938 was a bit late for an RC-1 Garrard. So reviewed my Scott literature.</p>
<p>The Garrard RC-1 seems to have been a Scott option from late 1937 until early 1940.</p>
<p>Previously, Scott offered the General Industries "Flinger" model 1936 into mid 1937.</p>
<p>Several Scott News issues from 1937 to 1940 show the Garrard RC-1 and photos. A couple include a long list of Garrard RC-1 features. See Scott News Vol 11, No 4, page 10-11 for RC-1 features. Scott sometimes…</p>
<p>First thought was 1938 was a bit late for an RC-1 Garrard. So reviewed my Scott literature.</p>
<p>The Garrard RC-1 seems to have been a Scott option from late 1937 until early 1940.</p>
<p>Previously, Scott offered the General Industries "Flinger" model 1936 into mid 1937.</p>
<p>Several Scott News issues from 1937 to 1940 show the Garrard RC-1 and photos. A couple include a long list of Garrard RC-1 features. See Scott News Vol 11, No 4, page 10-11 for RC-1 features. Scott sometimes refers to it as the Scott Automatic. With the magnetic pick up you might consider it a Garrard RM-1. For remote control equipped receivers, Scott could option the the changer for keyboard control.</p>
<p>I have a late 1940 Scott price list for the FM Philharmonic & FM Phantom which is my earliest which lists as options the Garrard RM-10 or RM-30. The difference being the RM-30 handles mixed 10 and 12 inch records. The RC- series had crystal pickups, which Scott also offered.</p>
<p>An internet search of vintage Garrard changer dates is poor indeed, but suggests US shipment began sometime 1937 and the newer models in 1940. So Scott was up to date seeking leading edge phonographs.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>John F Riders book <strong><em>Automatic Record Changers and Recorders</em></strong> (1941) covers RC- 1, RC-10, RC-30 and more.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I have two unrestored Garrard RC-30's on the shelf, one with crystal pick up and another with a magnetic pick up having a Scott tag on the motor.</p> Another interesting thing fou…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2021-12-31:3925821:Comment:1210452021-12-31T21:54:02.731ZDavid Wilsonhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/dwilsonzianetcom
<p>Another interesting thing found on my AW27 was the Garrard RC-1 automatic record changer had a June of 1938 date stamped on the Astatic phono in the changer. The window for AW 27 production was early 1936 trough the first quartet of 1937. So it's kind of odd that the photo cartridge would have a 1938 date on it. I guess the RC-1 could have had the original cartridge replace on it, if so that would be unusual. (See photo attached)</p>
<p>Another interesting thing found on my AW27 was the Garrard RC-1 automatic record changer had a June of 1938 date stamped on the Astatic phono in the changer. The window for AW 27 production was early 1936 trough the first quartet of 1937. So it's kind of odd that the photo cartridge would have a 1938 date on it. I guess the RC-1 could have had the original cartridge replace on it, if so that would be unusual. (See photo attached)</p> Kent ..... it looks like my A…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2021-12-31:3925821:Comment:1213542021-12-31T21:41:25.887ZDavid Wilsonhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/dwilsonzianetcom
<p>Kent ..... it looks like my AW 27 has the finer wire windings on both the left and right coils and the trimmer cap you highlight is not set up like your AW 27 but is set up like your AW 23. Interesting differences. (See attached photo)<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Kent King said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?id=3925821%3ATopic%3A121223&page=2#3925821Comment121134"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Slight change…</p>
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<p>Kent ..... it looks like my AW 27 has the finer wire windings on both the left and right coils and the trimmer cap you highlight is not set up like your AW 27 but is set up like your AW 23. Interesting differences. (See attached photo)<br/> <br/> <cite>Kent King said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?id=3925821%3ATopic%3A121223&page=2#3925821Comment121134"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Slight change on this same topic: You all got me to pull out my AW27 chassis. It hasn't been playing exactly right for a year or so, and all this talk made me decide to get it working right. I had worked on it a LONG time ago (more than 20 years) so my skills have improved a lot. When I restored it last, I did restuff all the original caps and all, I'm going to retest them but it <looked> good and played with great sound on AM. I never used it on SW much.</p>
<p>Anyway, ahead to today: when I opened it up, I immediately noticed the coil wheel was different. </p>
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<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/9969820877?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/9969820877?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>The coil on the left is from a normal 23/late. The one on the right is out of my 27. Note the wave coils for the band above AM. There is nothing on the left coil and the right coil is clearly wound very differently, finer wire, many more turns. I haven't had a chance to test what frequency range it runs - if it works at all. </p>
<p>Anyone have any ideas on the mods (different trimmer caps too). I may try operating the 27 with the other coil wheel (with an alignment)....this is going to take some time to test.</p>
<p>Kent</p>
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</blockquote> I'm still digging to find my…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2021-12-31:3925821:Comment:1211372021-12-31T14:36:55.996ZDavid Wilsonhttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/dwilsonzianetcom
<p>I'm still digging to find my AW 27 restoration specs. I did find my AW 15 info. It will be later in the day or tomorrow, I have to replace a fuel injector O rings on my Expedition today.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Kent King said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?commentId=3925821%3AComment%3A121134&xg_source=msg_com_forum#3925821Comment121044"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>One other thing I discovered this…</p>
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<p>I'm still digging to find my AW 27 restoration specs. I did find my AW 15 info. It will be later in the day or tomorrow, I have to replace a fuel injector O rings on my Expedition today.<br/> <br/> <cite>Kent King said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://ehscott.ning.com/forum/topics/the-mystery-of-the-all-wave-27-explained-maybe?commentId=3925821%3AComment%3A121134&xg_source=msg_com_forum#3925821Comment121044"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>One other thing I discovered this evening. I have a special supply for testing AW23 tuners, I can set the B+ and bias voltages precisely, allowing for very stable testing. This unit also monitors the current draw through the B+. I've restored enough AW23 sets to know that the tuner usually pulls about 75mA at 250v. The AW27 is pulling close to 150mA. I am not sure why it is so much greater, again, more testing this weekend.</p>
<p>Kent</p>
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</blockquote> One other thing I discovered…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2021-12-31:3925821:Comment:1210442021-12-31T02:27:22.858ZKent Kinghttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/KentKing
<p>One other thing I discovered this evening. I have a special supply for testing AW23 tuners, I can set the B+ and bias voltages precisely, allowing for very stable testing. This unit also monitors the current draw through the B+. I've restored enough AW23 sets to know that the tuner usually pulls about 75mA at 250v. The AW27 is pulling close to 150mA. I am not sure why it is so much greater, again, more testing this weekend.</p>
<p>Kent</p>
<p>One other thing I discovered this evening. I have a special supply for testing AW23 tuners, I can set the B+ and bias voltages precisely, allowing for very stable testing. This unit also monitors the current draw through the B+. I've restored enough AW23 sets to know that the tuner usually pulls about 75mA at 250v. The AW27 is pulling close to 150mA. I am not sure why it is so much greater, again, more testing this weekend.</p>
<p>Kent</p> Slight change on this same to…tag:ehscott.ning.com,2021-12-30:3925821:Comment:1211342021-12-30T22:19:35.188ZKent Kinghttps://ehscott.ning.com/profile/KentKing
<p>Slight change on this same topic: You all got me to pull out my AW27 chassis. It hasn't been playing exactly right for a year or so, and all this talk made me decide to get it working right. I had worked on it a LONG time ago (more than 20 years) so my skills have improved a lot. When I restored it last, I did restuff all the original caps and all, I'm going to retest them but it <looked> good and played with great sound on AM. I never used it on SW much.</p>
<p>Anyway, ahead to today:…</p>
<p>Slight change on this same topic: You all got me to pull out my AW27 chassis. It hasn't been playing exactly right for a year or so, and all this talk made me decide to get it working right. I had worked on it a LONG time ago (more than 20 years) so my skills have improved a lot. When I restored it last, I did restuff all the original caps and all, I'm going to retest them but it <looked> good and played with great sound on AM. I never used it on SW much.</p>
<p>Anyway, ahead to today: when I opened it up, I immediately noticed the coil wheel was different. </p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/9969820877?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/9969820877?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>The coil on the left is from a normal 23/late. The one on the right is out of my 27. Note the wave coils for the band above AM. There is nothing on the left coil and the right coil is clearly wound very differently, finer wire, many more turns. I haven't had a chance to test what frequency range it runs - if it works at all. </p>
<p>Anyone have any ideas on the mods (different trimmer caps too). I may try operating the 27 with the other coil wheel (with an alignment)....this is going to take some time to test.</p>
<p>Kent</p>