Questions about an AM/FM Phantom

[Alex R. Whitaker]

All,

I just bought an AM/FM Phantom from Estes this last weekend.  It has been overhauled and is getting set to become a daily player.  I have an AM/FM Philharmonic that has the tweeters and crossovers that my AM/FM Phantom is not equipped with.  Can I use them with the Phantom, or are they different for each radio?  Once I get the Philharmonic overhauled, I'll probably put everything back together, but, until then, it would be nice to be able to use them.  

[David C. Poland]

Alex, looking at your photos again, you seem to have a transitional crossover between the types 3 and 4. I see the jones plug on a cable. . and I see the location where the rectifier tube would be, but see a filler plug in that hole. Unclear if your crossover has that 2nd cable to the receiver, but suspect it does. 

if you Phantom is a Deluxe with old FM band and the amp speaker socket is Jones type, then maybe it has the little socket  wired to a band switch wafer, in which case the tweeter should operate. Otherwise, the tweeters will be silent, unless you make some careful modifications to the crossover.

Earlier production Phillys and Phantoms had the little socket wired for phono. If your Phantom has separate phono terminal screws, then the little socket is likely for the second crossover tweeter cable.

But as usual, Scott was custom set builder, and exceptions occur. Suppose for example,  the Philly was ordered with standard speaker and owner later decided to up grade to the optional hifi speaker system and Scott had to dumb down the crossover to make it work on that particular receiver.

[David C. Poland]

yes, depending on the cable plugs, and couple other issues including how your receivers are wired.

Here is my take.

Scott seems to have changed to Jones plugs for the Philharmonic and Phantom Deluxe sometime 1941, about the time the  1941 AM/FM/SW Scott Laureate was introduced using Jones Plugs for set and speaker cables. Be extremely difficult to covert Jones plug wiring to round plug wiring or vice versa. Be a bitch finding proper plugs. The Jones plugs included a jumper for AC to the power switch, now part of the volume control. I have had my hands on the Jones Plug example FM Phantom and have a 1941 Scott Laureate.

All 3 radio models used 6L6 output tubes (pair or a quad)) and the same standard speaker with tapped field, either 12 or 15 inch and there is every indication the STANDARD  speakers were electrically the same. Now, NO provision for optional tweeters like the Philly 15 inch pedestal did. Even a flange mount 15 inch speaker  for the Philharmonic towards 1941 became standard.

The optional multi unit high fidelity speaker systems introduced  in 1940 required a different big speaker, meaning the standard speaker with attached output transformer could not be used with it,

I have observed 4 iterations of the crossover. Every version has the output transformer in the crossover. The larger speaker was a woofer and the each tweeter had its own 2 pin plug to the crossover. There was also a dummy plug wired as a jumper that could be rewired to feed a remote speaker. Riders has extensive information and diagrams of the crossover (See The Scott Laureate for Jones Plug version crossover wiring.)

1) larger crossover came first. Wired so the tweeters were always "ON". Round Amp plug.

2) smaller more modern looking crossover, wired like #1. Round Amp plug. Tweeters always "ON". 

3) smaller more modern looking crossover. Round Amp plug. Additional small cable with small 4 pin plug that fits small socket on receiver rear apron. this small socket is no longer for a phono, Now it is connected to an additional wafer on the band switch, wired so the tweeters only function on the high frequency FM band. (I rewired my Scott Laureate so it also functions on phono, for a CD player)

4). smaller more modern looking crossover, with an added rectifier tube. Jones Plug to receiver. Small cable to receiver to the band switch wafer to limit tweeter(s) to FM only. The tweeters each have field coils and so have 4 pin plugs (and look a lot like table radio speakers). My Scott Laureate has but one tweeter, coax style on the 15 inch woofer. 

*

I have a late 1939 remote control AM/SW Phantom Deluxe, to which I added the Scott optional hiFi speakers. I accumulated a type 3 crossover  which I rewired (removing the 2nd cable) so that the tweeters will always be 'ON". being earlier PM Jensen type, used red and black banana plugs that fit the crossover sockets and the colors to observe polarity. Picked up the proper 12 inch Scott woofer for it.

[Kent King]

Alex - OK, so the pictures you posted...if you use the entire setup - crossover and 3 speakers, you should be able to use them with the Phantom you got. As I recall, that Phantom has Jones plugs. If this crossover uses the Jones plug, just verify the pins are the same (output plates, fields, etc) and it should be an equal swap. If this crossover uses the older round plug, you will have to add a Jones plug to the crossover to connect to the Phantom PS. I may have a connector if needed on that. Let me know how it goes.

Kent

[Alex R. Whitaker]

I've posted views of the tweeters, main speaker, and crossover network.  It looks like I may have left a couple of mouse turds in the bottom of this thing by accident.  My apologies for that.  

[Alex R. Whitaker]

Philly%20tweeters.jpgPhilly%20crossover.jpgPhilly%20crossover%20top.jpgPhilly%20crossover%20right%20side%20knob.jpgPhilly%20speaker%20back.jpgPhilly%20speaker%20cone.jpg

[Alex R. Whitaker]

I'll get pictures of the tweeters and crossover and put them on here.  The speaker in the Phantom looks exactly like the one in my Philharmonic.....a non-pedestal model that attaches to the baffle board with screws.  

[Kent King]

Depends on the crossover and the tweeters. If you can attach pics of the tweeters and the crossover, and the speaker arrangement in the Phantom, I can tell you more. Honestly, it is more unlikely than likely, but we can hope.

Kent