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I have been looking for a 15" Jensen pedestal speaker for a later BOL Philharmonic for a long time. The owner came up with a 12" Magnavox pedestal speaker with the same 7 pin plug.

Will this speaker work on the Philharmonic?

Thanks

John

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John -

If you can, please post a picture.

If you have a 12 in Magnavox speaker with the Scott 7-pin connector, you most likely have an AW23 speaker. If so, it will not substitute directly to the Philharmonic. 

Unfortunately, finding the Scott 15 in speaker for a Philly is going to be a difficult task.

Kent

Thanks Kent

I'll try to get a pic posted soon. Perhaps someone out there would be interested in a trade plus cash.

John

Kent King said:

John -

If you can, please post a picture.

If you have a 12 in Magnavox speaker with the Scott 7-pin connector, you most likely have an AW23 speaker. If so, it will not substitute directly to the Philharmonic. 

Unfortunately, finding the Scott 15 in speaker for a Philly is going to be a difficult task.

Kent

John - The AW-23 speaker is unsatisfactory because the field coil is wrong and the output transformer in the speaker pedestal is for 2A3 triodes. The required Philharmonic speaker has specific field coil requirements and an output transformer for 6L6 output tubes. The Philharmonic  main speaker was by Magnavox, not Jensen. Tweeters for the Philharmonic appear to be Jensens with permanent magnets, but not sure what make tweeters were used for the later 1940-41 optional 4 unit high fidelity system.

You have three speaker choices for a Scott Philharmonic. 

1) 1937-1940 - the standard 15 inch pedestal Magnavox speaker - Silver crackle paint and is mounted on a wood base also painted silver.  Has the Scott decal on the back and also has "Magnavox" embossed into the metal of the terminal strip cover.  Has a 38 ohm voice coil and the output transformer is inside the pedestal.  This speaker was supplied for the 1937-8 pointer dial model and 1938-1940 BOL models - both the 7 and later 9 knob variants. Has a 2 pin socket on the pedestal base for optional tweeter pair.  The optional tweeters have permanent magnets and are wired on a single cable with a 2 pin plug. 

2) 1940-41  BOL model Philharmonic  including the FM version. The standard speaker is a flange mount 15 inch speaker in silver crackle paint with the output transformer mounted on the speaker basket. NO pedestal and no provision for optional tweeters. Has a 38 ohm voice coil. Is electrically equal to the pedestal speaker but no provision for tweeters.

3)  1940-41  - the optional four unit high fidelity speaker system. The grey paint outboard  crossover with output transformer and several sockets has a single cable with round plug to the amp.  There is a secondary cable from the crossover to the receiver with small 4 pin plug.   The big speaker is a 15 inch flange mount with field coil in silver paint and a small 5 pin plug to fit the crossover 5 pin socket. NO output transformer mounted on this speaker because the output transformer in on the crossover. 8 ohm voice coil. Tweeters are also each 8 ohm and each tweeter has its own small 2 pin cable plug that fits crossover sockets. Two versions of the crossover: one larger and the later version somewhat smaller.  Crossover has caps inside to evaluate. There is no rectifier on this crossover, but the smaller version may have a topside filler where a rectifier tube would be.

(This optional 4 unit speaker system was also available for the late version Scott Phantom model using two 6L6 output tubes (but not the earlier Phantom using 6V6 output tubes) and is seen with either a 15 inch and 12 inch main speaker)

However - there is a revised version of the optional 4 unit speaker system for the later 1941 version Scott models equipped with Jones plugs for the receiver and for the speaker - seen for late 1941 Philharmonic, Phantom and Laureate.  The examples I have includes a 35Z3 rectifier on the crossover to power tweeter field coils and the tweeter cable plugs are 4 pin, not 2 pin.  The crossover has a rectifier tube power supply for the tweeter field coils only.  The Jones plug version Phantom and Philharmonic version I am aware of have a 15 inch 8 ohm speaker flange mound speaker and pair of field coil 8 ohm speakers. The 1941 Laureate may use the optional 4 unit  combination or, like mine, a single tweeter mounted inside the big speaker cone as a co-axial version.

The standard speaker for the Jones Plug models may be 12 inch or 15 inch with  output transformer mounted on the speaker and have 38 voice coils rather than 8 ohm voice coils used with the crossover version speakers 

Hi David

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Since I don't have the original speaker, it's hard to know for sure what it looked like.

This chassis serial number RR-181 is the later 9 control set with the ultra high & TV band (no FM).

It has two eye tubes, & four 6L6 output tubes. So I expect your choice # 1 is the correct speaker. Do you agree?

However, if choice # 2 is electrically the same, I could use that too.

I have an excellent Allwave 23 12" speaker to trade plus cash.

Thanks

John

David C. Poland said:

John - The AW-23 speaker is unsatisfactory because the field coil is wrong and the output transformer in the speaker pedestal is for 2A3 triodes. The required Philharmonic speaker has specific field coil requirements and an output transformer for 6L6 output tubes. The Philharmonic  main speaker was by Magnavox, not Jensen. Tweeters for the Philharmonic appear to be Jensens with permanent magnets, but not sure what make tweeters were used for the later 1940-41 optional 4 unit high fidelity system.

You have three speaker choices for a Scott Philharmonic. 

1) 1937-1940 - the standard 15 inch pedestal Magnavox speaker - Silver crackle paint and is mounted on a wood base also painted silver.  Has the Scott decal on the back and also has "Magnavox" embossed into the metal of the terminal strip cover.  Has a 38 ohm voice coil and the output transformer is inside the pedestal.  This speaker was supplied for the 1937-8 pointer dial model and 1938-1940 BOL models - both the 7 and later 9 knob variants. Has a 2 pin socket on the pedestal base for optional tweeter pair.  The optional tweeters have permanent magnets and are wired on a single cable with a 2 pin plug. 

2) 1940-41  BOL model Philharmonic  including the FM version. The standard speaker is a flange mount 15 inch speaker in silver crackle paint with the output transformer mounted on the speaker basket. NO pedestal and no provision for optional tweeters. Has a 38 ohm voice coil. Is electrically equal to the pedestal speaker but no provision for tweeters.

3)  1940-41  - the optional four unit high fidelity speaker system. The grey paint outboard  crossover with output transformer and several sockets has a single cable with round plug to the amp.  There is a secondary cable from the crossover to the receiver with small 4 pin plug.   The big speaker is a 15 inch flange mount with field coil in silver paint and a small 5 pin plug to fit the crossover 5 pin socket. NO output transformer mounted on this speaker because the output transformer in on the crossover. 8 ohm voice coil. Tweeters are also each 8 ohm and each tweeter has its own small 2 pin cable plug that fits crossover sockets. Two versions of the crossover: one larger and the later version somewhat smaller.  Crossover has caps inside to evaluate. There is no rectifier on this crossover, but the smaller version may have a topside filler where a rectifier tube would be.

(This optional 4 unit speaker system was also available for the late version Scott Phantom model using two 6L6 output tubes (but not the earlier Phantom using 6V6 output tubes) and is seen with either a 15 inch and 12 inch main speaker)

However - there is a revised version of the optional 4 unit speaker system for the later 1941 version Scott models equipped with Jones plugs for the receiver and for the speaker - seen for late 1941 Philharmonic, Phantom and Laureate.  The examples I have includes a 35Z3 rectifier on the crossover to power tweeter field coils and the tweeter cable plugs are 4 pin, not 2 pin.  The crossover has a rectifier tube power supply for the tweeter field coils only.  The Jones plug version Phantom and Philharmonic version I am aware of have a 15 inch 8 ohm speaker flange mound speaker and pair of field coil 8 ohm speakers. The 1941 Laureate may use the optional 4 unit  combination or, like mine, a single tweeter mounted inside the big speaker cone as a co-axial version.

The standard speaker for the Jones Plug models may be 12 inch or 15 inch with  output transformer mounted on the speaker and have 38 voice coils rather than 8 ohm voice coils used with the crossover version speakers 

Any of the 3 may have been shipped with a 9 control BOL AM only model Philharmonic, I think, because late 1939 to early 1940 seems to me to mark the change away from the pedestal speaker.

Thanks for the wonderful explanation David! This will make finding an appropriate speaker for my pointer Philharmonic a little easier. :)

John,

Monitor what appears on eBay. Ebay can be an expensive venue and you can't personally check electric condition. And there is shipping cost. And risk of poor packing. And risk of misleading descriptions.

Take your time. Your amp has the round non-standard 7 pin speaker socket. Samples of current and past eBay items below. To avoid a wrong purchase, pay attention to the details. Get acquainted with the general appearance and details. Also watch for prices paid and what no-one would pay.  I am NOT suggesting you buy any of these, just look at the details:

** This 15 inch Philly speaker: 12276639602.  flange mount. no output transformer. Small 5 pin plug to fit a crossover.

** This crossover: 372227320453.  non-rectifier version but drilled for a rectifier and hole is plugged. Has a 10 pin  Jones plug. Unlikely to ever find a round plug to fit the non-standard 7 pin round socket on your amp except from a donor speaker.  The amp's speaker socket hole is way too small to accommodate a Jones socket and, anyway, just try to find a Jones socket other than from a donor chassis.

** pedestal Philly speaker. 273076454598.  Pedestal, 15 inch, On a wood base. Cable with round plug for amp.

** speaker.  122914213522.     12 inch flange mount,  no output transformer, small 5 pin plug to fit crossover.  So, although from a Laureate model, it uses the same crossover and is electrically the same as the 15 inch speaker with same field coil, so would work for a Philly.

** speaker. 232672468374.     12 inch pedestal on a metal base. two sockets on base, two cables, one cable is very short. both cables have round plugs. one has 7 pins and one 5 pins.   (it is for an AW-23) 

##   The Philharmonic and the AW-23 speakers are NOT interchangeable. Nor are the optional tweeters.

FYI - the Philly speaker has a single tapped field coil. Philly needs the 6L6 output transformer.

      - the AW-23 speaker has an one field coil (not tapped) and a separate large power resistor in the pedestal. That resistor is used only in the absence of the field coil tweeters. Needs the 2A3 output transformer.

I have a Scott search set in my browser toolbar that I click on practically every day, and have so for at least 10 years.  I monitor the prices of what stuff sells for and I can tell you that a 15" pedestal will sell for the $300 to $700 range at most.  The guy listing that pedestal for $4500 is obviously out of touch with reality- and if he really want to sell it, sooner or later he will come down to reality.  The only vintage speakers that sell for that kind of money are certain Western Electric units.  I purchased a tested and in excellent physical condition 15" pedestal about 1-1/2 years ago from E-bay for about $450.  It was listed for about $100 more for a  while and I made the guy an offer that he accepted.  I pointed out to the seller that a similar one had just sold in active bidding for under $400 a month earlier.  These things seem to come in spurts and the sale price just depends on who is actively looking and in need.   

I have a Phantom amp that a previous owner used a separate output transformer on so he could drive a standard 8 ohm speaker.  He just added resistors to make up the resistance of the field coil, and possibly (I don't remember) an extra filter capacitor.  The radio actually sounded excellent driving not so special 8 ohm speakers.   You can also use a choke to keep the filtering, but it is hard to find chokes with such a high resistance as the original field coils, so you will probably need to add series resistance to it to make up the difference.  I think these field coils generally ran about 1000 ohms.   If you do this, I would mount the resistor and output transformer in a separate project box so when a 15" pedestal does come along it is easily reversible.  Anyway, this is a good way to get your Scott working while you search for the correct speaker. 

I'll just wait for the correct Magnavox speaker now that I know it's the correct one for this radio.



Scott Seickel said:

I have a Scott search set in my browser toolbar that I click on practically every day, and have so for at least 10 years.  I monitor the prices of what stuff sells for and I can tell you that a 15" pedestal will sell for the $300 to $700 range at most.  The guy listing that pedestal for $4500 is obviously out of touch with reality- and if he really want to sell it, sooner or later he will come down to reality.  The only vintage speakers that sell for that kind of money are certain Western Electric units.  I purchased a tested and in excellent physical condition 15" pedestal about 1-1/2 years ago from E-bay for about $450.  It was listed for about $100 more for a  while and I made the guy an offer that he accepted.  I pointed out to the seller that a similar one had just sold in active bidding for under $400 a month earlier.  These things seem to come in spurts and the sale price just depends on who is actively looking and in need.   

I have a Phantom amp that a previous owner used a separate output transformer on so he could drive a standard 8 ohm speaker.  He just added resistors to make up the resistance of the field coil, and possibly (I don't remember) an extra filter capacitor.  The radio actually sounded excellent driving not so special 8 ohm speakers.   You can also use a choke to keep the filtering, but it is hard to find chokes with such a high resistance as the original field coils, so you will probably need to add series resistance to it to make up the difference.  I think these field coils generally ran about 1000 ohms.   If you do this, I would mount the resistor and output transformer in a separate project box so when a 15" pedestal does come along it is easily reversible.  Anyway, this is a good way to get your Scott working while you search for the correct speaker. 

The Philharmonic field coil is 925 ohms tapped at 515 ohms, per my notes. Study the amp and speaker diagram to see what the tap feeds. Same as the later Phantom amp using 6L6 output tubes,  and the Scott Laureate which also uses 6L6 output tubes.

I understand using substitute speaker's in order to run a restored receiver and amp. But avoid long term issues by keeping the amp true to its design, so if you later acquire the correct speaker(s), you can just plug it in.  Meanwhile consider a little breadboard to hold the resistor substitute for the field coil  and the output transformer to match to the 6L6's the alternative speaker you choose.

Hello John-

I will gladly purchase your AW23 Magnavox speaker to complete my radio that I purchased last December, which came with an incorrect substitute speaker, should you decide to sell yours separately. 

Thank you and best regards-

Troy Taylor

Hi Troy

Are you able to provide any leads to help me locate a 15" Magnavox speaker?

Thanks

John

Troy Taylor said:

Hello John-

I will gladly purchase your AW23 Magnavox speaker to complete my radio that I purchased last December, which came with an incorrect substitute speaker, should you decide to sell yours separately. 

Thank you and best regards-

Troy Taylor

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