Allwave 12 Deluxe

[John T. Meredith]

Does anyone have an Allwave 12 Deluxe with an 8 pin Jones plug going to the amplifier section?

Please advise.  I am looking for this particular chassis.

Cheers,

John Meredith

[Dave]

Here’s the S12 Jones to PS.....it’s numbering would be 6

[Kent King]

Dave - John is seeking the AW12 EARLY chassis with the 8-pin plug. I have one in my collection, they are not as common as the 6-pin (later) AW12...

Kent

[Dave]

Very well, did not know the “early” set carried the “deluxe” description. What were the other obvious differences ?

[Kent King]

I call any single dial 12 a Deluxe...leaving the Allwave 12 (not Deluxe) for the 2-dial. But I suppose on consideration, we could align on Allwave 12 2-dial, Allwave 12 and Allwave 12 Deluxe to distinguish them, but I doubt anyone will get the distinction between the 8-pin and 6-pin sets...

John M - check your email, I think I can help you.

Kent

[Kent King]

It is worse...

So I found an 8-pin AW12 set in the boneyard - complete but only fair condition. I also have an 8-pin chassis in my Olympia cabinet. Here is the problem:

The 8-pin chassis A-229 (in my Olympia cabinet) is a non-AVC (very early) AW 12 Deluxe. It uses 24 and 27 tubes, similar to the Allwave 12 2-dial chassis but with a rotating coil assembly. Even though the serial number is high (229), prefix A is likely the first one Scott used (I have reason to believe that.);

The set in the boneyard is serial number H-121. It has the 8-pin connector BUT...it is an AVC set, using 57, 58 and a Wunderlich detector. Until I located this chassis, I had thought all 8-pin Allwave 12 tuners were early, non-AVC sets. So maybe I can assume this is an early Allwave 12 AVC set? Not so fast...

Another of my later Allwave 12 Deluxe (with AVC) sets is H-71, and this set has a 6-pin plug. So now I've got two AVC equipped sets, one with an 8-pin plug but a higher serial number in the same prefix as a 6-pin Allwave Deluxe. 

This really cramps the serial number models a bit...we'll never know for sure. 

Kent

[David C. Poland]

Jon. ....  Scott seems to have evolved the Allwave Deluxe in steps over some months. DELUXE means internal coil wheel replaced the plug in coils and single dial tuning, but otherwise  began with same tubes and amp as the 2-DIAL.

I HAD a very early Deluxe - single dial, 5 pin speaker socket for the single 11 inch speaker (Scott branded ROLA) of the 2-DIAL type, 8 pin Jones plug, 27's and 24's, voltage divider in the amp, evidently a real early example, say, Spring 1932. The bias for the 45 type tubes was off the end of the big ceramic voltage divider.

First transition seems to be by Summer 1932 1) to a 6 pin speaker socket for the twin speakers and 2) relocating the voltage divider to the receiver, but still using the 8 in Jones plug (as tho Scott was using up amp chassis already cut for the 8 pin Jones Socket and a supply of 8 pin sockets and plugs but pins 6, 7 & 8 unused, ... and replacing 27's with 56's. The bias now off a speaker field coil. I have seen such a set.

Later in 1932, changing to 6 pin Jones Socket, but before the December 1932 introduction of the  AVC with Wunderlich detector. Pin 6 is unused.

December 1932 introduced the AVC model with not only the Arcturus Wunderlich for second detector, but change over to all Arcturus tubes, and replacing the 24A''s with 58's. Still using the twin speaker set (ROLA).

Spring 1933, replacing the twin speaker set with the 12 inch pedestal speaker (a special Jensen) (electrically equal to the twin set - they are interchangeable).

By early 1934, redesign the audio path from the 2nd AF 56 tube to the Amp using Jones Plug pin 6. I have this version, and this amp is not backwards compatible because of the audio path change. Couple other site members have this version too.

[John T. Meredith]

Okay so the sequence of set development in the early 1930's is:

1. AW 12 2 Dial

2. AW 12 single dial: Spring 1932

3. AW 12 single dial with AVC: Summer 1932 (four variations)

4. AW 13 (National Geographic Advertisement) and what is on Kent's restoration bench

5. AW 15 (three basic variations)

Any thoughts?  Kent: what is the serial number on the AW 13 and how does it compare with the AW 12 D.  

[Kent King]

This is what I thought until I found this chassis...here is my problem...I have an 8-pin chassis here WITH AVC. How would that fit in? And an AVC set with a 6-pin power cable with a LOWER serial number than the 8-pin AVC...

Drives me crazy sometimes.

David C. Poland said:

Jon. ....  Scott seems to have evolved the Allwave Deluxe in steps over some months. DELUXE means internal coil wheel replaced the plug in coils and single dial tuning, but otherwise  began with same tubes and amp as the 2-DIAL.

I HAD a very early Deluxe - single dial, 5 pin speaker socket for the single 11 inch speaker (Scott branded ROLA) of the 2-DIAL type, 8 pin Jones plug, 27's and 24's, voltage divider in the amp, evidently a real early example, say, Spring 1932. The bias for the 45 type tubes was off the end of the big ceramic voltage divider.

First transition seems to be by Summer 1932 1) to a 6 pin speaker socket for the twin speakers and 2) relocating the voltage divider to the receiver, but still using the 8 in Jones plug (as tho Scott was using up amp chassis already cut for the 8 pin Jones Socket and a supply of 8 pin sockets and plugs but pins 6, 7 & 8 unused, ... and replacing 27's with 56's. The bias now off a speaker field coil. I have seen such a set.

Later in 1932, changing to 6 pin Jones Socket, but before the December 1932 introduction of the  AVC with Wunderlich detector. Pin 6 is unused.

December 1932 introduced the AVC model with not only the Arcturus Wunderlich for second detector, but change over to all Arcturus tubes, and replacing the 24A''s with 58's. Still using the twin speaker set (ROLA).

Spring 1933, replacing the twin speaker set with the 12 inch pedestal speaker (a special Jensen) (electrically equal to the twin set - they are interchangeable).

By early 1934, redesign the audio path from the 2nd AF 56 tube to the Amp using Jones Plug pin 6. I have this version, and this amp is not backwards compatible because of the audio path change. Couple other site members have this version too.

[Kent King]

G-240 Different prefix...and a high number (all Allwave 12 sets end at ?-250, no matter the prefix, a known break point. So it's a late set but has no bearing on my quandary with these H prefix sets.

  

John T. Meredith said:

Okay so the sequence of set development in the early 1930's is:

1. AW 12 2 Dial

2. AW 12 single dial: Spring 1932

3. AW 12 single dial with AVC: Summer 1932 (four variations)

4. AW 13 (National Geographic Advertisement) and what is on Kent's restoration bench

5. AW 15 (three basic variations)

Any thoughts?  Kent: what is the serial number on the AW 13 and how does it compare with the AW 12 D.  

[John T. Meredith]

Could that chassis C-240 have been a special order to be used with a 150 amplifier?  Or, could it have started life as an earlier AW 12?  Is there anyway to gauge a date based on any of the components on the inside of the chassis?  Also, I have noticed on some of my early chassis that at an inside corner there is a set of initials and a date.  Please take a look.  

Just a note on our discussion.  I think a discussion like this one is important for at least a couple of reasons:

1. It engages the members of this group and serves to educate them.  The more we learn about E H Scott Radios the better we will be able to restore and preserve the history.

2. Nuances such as this one and the correlation with the serial numbers adds to an understanding of the evolution of the line of radios and the number of radios produced.  

Clearly the 150 amplifier was special and went with a very particular AW 12 chassis.  What we can say is that the early AW 12 was paired with a amplifier very similar to the AW 12 2D amplifier.  The 150 amplifier may have been designed during or along with the early (Spring 1932) AW 12.  (What is the date of the Scott News that shows this particular 150 amplifier?)

As for chassis C-240, this may have come later and then had the amp added to it for a complete Scott.  We can speculate that it was a special order.  I do not think it would make sense to build C-240 for an earlier amplifier (AW12-2D amplifier) given the circuit date of later 1932.  It would make sense to match C-240 to the 150 amplifier as the customer may have wanted a radio for a large venue (dance studio or auditorium). 

It will be interesting to find out if all the pins on the 8 pin amplifier connection on C-240 are used and if they match correctly to the 150 amplifier.  Right now, I count 6 variations on the AW 12 single dial.  Is the AW 13 another variation?  All these variations also denote a time of stiff competition and rapidly changing tube technology.  Scott was doing his best to stay up with these two aspects of production in the middle of the Depression.  He was working hard to be on top and have the best radio possible for the time. 

Please feel free to add any thoughts or suggestions. 

Cheers,

John

[Kent King]

As we discussed in email, G-240 (not C) is the odd AW13 set. It has a 6-pin plug so it was never tied to the Type 150 amp. With a 240 serial number, it was VERY late, the Type 150 amp must have been much earlier - those two items were built at least a year apart. 

The Type 150 first appears for the AW 12 2-dial set. We now know, from the two 8-pin AW12 Deluxe sets, it could also have been sold/worked with the early versions of the 12 Deluxe. 

If I would hazard a guess - the AW13 (G-240) would more likely have been made to work with an early AW15 (2A3) amp. It had to be custom because the interstage transformer has to be P-P, not single ended like every other AW12 Deluxe power supply.

Kent