Modified Allwave 23 questions

[Troy Taylor]

Hello-

I just posted some questions about the Allwave 12 I bought last weekend and wanted to ask some questions about a second Scott radio I was offered, but turned down because I have some reservations about its degree of authenticity (it has obviously been modified), and whether or not it would be possible to restore it to it's original configuration.

The second radio is an Allwave 23 and I was all set to purchase it too, but then I took a look at the back of the cabinet and noticed the cover panel was attached with phillips-head sheet-rock screws.  I removed the screws and saw a large mystery box of components and modern wiring, and a terminal strip of wires going everywhere stuck in the bottom of the cabinet.  Some of the wires lead to a large MAGNAVOX speaker that had been shoved in there.  Obviously someone has removed the correct speaker and replaced it with this albatross substitute, and then created some sort of Frankenstein contraption to work around the electrical differences between the factory speaker and this substitute.  I do not have any pictures of this conglomeration, but it is definitely not original factory work, or the work of someone that shares my belief of the necessity of maintaining originality when working on vintage items.

Although it might be functional, or made to be functional, as-is, I am only willing to buy this radio if I discover it is possible to 'unmolest' it and return it to the correct configuration and components it would have had when built.

At the very least it will need a replacement speaker of whatever variety is correct for this radio.  (However, I do not know what kind of speaker this would be.)  Probably everyone wants these speakers for something, so I have little confidence in finding one, but if it is possible to do so, I will reconsider purchasing this radio if I can be sure it is restorable.  I would like to restore this radio correctly, but I have little interest in one that has been butchered in this manner if proper restoration is not possible.

Thank you and best regards-

Troy Taylor

[David C. Poland]

Browse this website and the threads on Allwave 23 model for information.

FYI - the correct speaker is a Magnavox 12 inch pedestal speaker in silver paint. There was an option for a pair of 5 inch tweeters for high fidelity sound.  The correct amp is big, measures is 5 inches by 22 inches, chrome plated with two rectifiers tubes and four 2A3 output tubes.

None of the Scott cabinets I am familiar with for the AW-23 had a back cover like you describe.

There were some customized versions. A photo posted here might yield answers.

[Troy Taylor]

Thank you David-

I have contacted the seller to request some pictures of the inside of cabinet that will show the speaker and the mystery box with the terminal strip and non-original wiring.  Since the speaker is a silver Magnavox, which you say is the correct brand, maybe this radio is not as modified as I thought and perhaps it is restorable after all.  If/when I receive some pictures I will post them here.  The seller of the radio is quite a drive from my house, so I cannot easily stop by to  get another look in person.  In the meantime, I will go through the archives here for more information as you suggest.  

If it turns out that this radio is actually fairly original, then I intend to buy it after all.  I like the look of it, and having _two_ Scott radios would be beyond my wildest imagination.  I never thought I'd even have one.

Thank you and best regards-

Troy

[Troy Taylor]

Hello-

Thank you for the information regarding the probable originality of the Magnavox speaker in this Allwave 23.  Based on that, I revisited the seller and discovered a previously unmentioned file folder of additional information regarding the radio, which included a hand-drawn schematic from 2006 sketched by a previous owner outlining what he did to the speakers and the creation of the mystery box they are plugged into.  So, armed with this additional information about what was done to the radio, I went ahead and purchased the radio AS-IS.  I now have it at home and have been able to take some pictures which I will attach to this thread now.  Please note that this is completely as I received it; I have not even dusted yet.  I do have the correct amp for this, but it was not actually screwed into the cabinet anywhere, so it was removed for clarity in the speaker photos.

The cabinet is a Warrington and the radio is a 7-knob version.  

So now my questions are:

>Could someone familiar with this radio and it's original configuration please have a look at the hand drawn schematic and tell me if they can figure out what it is functionally doing in the circuit, and perhaps advance a theory as to why it was added?

>Related to above, what would be the advantage/disadvantage to removing it or leaving it in?  My preference would be to return the radio to completely stock, but if this circuit is somehow functionally advantageous, then I'd consider leaving it there.

>Is the rear cover panel and all this insulation/batting stuffed in the cabinet original, or was this added later?  The cover looks somewhat professionally made, but it is quartersawn oak, which does not match the rest of the cabinet at all.  This is what was fastened on with sheetrock screws, which I have removed.  If the rear cover is correct, I will replace the screws with proper slotted screws appropriate to the time period.

>Is replacement grille cloth available?  I'd like to get a new piece to replace the one pictured that looks like it was attacked by an angry cat.

Thank you all for any information you may have!

Best regards-

Troy

[Troy Taylor]

I wanted to add more than three pictures, but did not see how to do that, so am replying again.

[Troy Taylor]

A couple more pictures to add.

[Kent King]

Troy -

Well, some good news and some bad news. 

The good news first: the fellow that did the work appears to have decent knowledge about what he was doing, and his mods are reasonable. 

The bad news: that is not the correct 12 in speaker for this radio. The correct speaker is a pedestal unit which has the output transformer mounted in the pedestal and is a field coil speaker. The speaker present is a PM speaker, so his little box substitutes for the field and the output circuit. 

More good news: your set has the correct original tweeters, which are a (currently) very valuable commodity.

Your set is well worth whatever you paid...for us long term Scott collectors, I'd restore and operate the set with his mods, and keep my eyes open for the right speaker - you will find one, they do turn up. Might not be cheap (more than $100, but less than $500), but then you'd have the set back to its original condition. 

A very nice find.

Kent

[Troy Taylor]

Thank you Kent, I appreciate the explanation for what was done here to my radio, and I am glad to hear it is likely a reversible modification.  I will definitely be looking for the correct speaker so I can remove this alteration and return this radio to the proper original configuration.  How will I know which speaker is the right one though?  I imagine there are many different 12" speakers from that time period and most will be wrong for this radio.

And, do the original speakers irreparably fail sometimes?  Otherwise, why would anyone go to all the trouble of building this contraption to use the wrong speaker instead?

It is good to hear that the tweeters are correct though.  I wonder why those are so valuable separately today?  Surely there are not so many Scott radios missing those now to account for enough demand to drive the prices up high.

[Thomas Day]

Troy:

Kent is essentially correct, but you do have a field coil speaker. You may also have the original output transformer in the added box. The added 500 ohm resistor pack probably compensates for the fact the new speaker has a different value for the field coil. The back panel and insulation were added, possibly to try to improve the bass response of the speaker. The original cabinet has an open back. At any rate congratulations on a great find.

I have an all wave 23 five knob in the Waverly cabinet. I have it working, but still need to do a complete alignment. Just not ready to take 100 pounds of chassis and speaker to the bench. 

[Troy Taylor]

Thank you Thomas-

I think I will remove the cover panel and insulation then; someone put a lot of effort into the job of installing it, but it still looks rather messy and I don't want to spend any time repairing the cracks/splits in the cover panel since it is not factory original.  I don't believe I would ever notice any difference in bass response with/without the insulation while listening to AM broadcast stations today; if all that insulation actually did change anything I am sure it was quite negligible at best.

A new question:  Should there be some sort of glass in the escutcheon covering the tuning dial?  Right now that is completely open, so you can poke your finger right through to the calibrated plastic strip.  That seems wrong to me and an invitation for someone to potentially cause damage, but I've never seen another Allwave 23 for comparison.  If there is supposed to be glass, is anyone selling replacement pieces today?  I would like to buy one if possible.

Best regards-

Troy

[mike hadley]

Troy,

the escutcheon has a frosted plastic window with colored stripes representing the four wave bands that the set covers,

a replacement is available from the net, the dial works by the dial lamp projecting the numbers on the plastic strip on to the back of themissing window,

you could use a piece of diffuser removed from a dead lcd panel, this won't have the colours but will work.

mike

found this imageimage.jpeg

[Thomas Day]

The cover is a four color plastic that is attached to the bezel on the cabinet. They are available from Radio Daze web site. There are 2 versions. One has full color white, blue, green and red bands that correspond to the color dots on the wave change switch lever. The other has partial color bands. Either should be ok. When you remove the two small screws that hold the dial cover, there are 2 small tabs that hold the plastic dial cover.

Also note that the wave change switch does not do a full rotation. Alan can also provide a  copy of the owners, service manual. It is also available on this web site along with Norman's check list for restoration. This is an easy chassis to work on. I have done a recap on mine, and had to have a new power transformer built. This was done by Heyboer transformers in Grand Haven Mi.

Again, congrats on a great find.

Thom

[Troy Taylor]

Thank you Mike and Thomas-

I have found the Radio Daze replacement for the missing plastic and will be ordering one soon.  Any recommendations on whether clear or frosted would look better?  They offer both.

And I have yet a new question, now that I've been working on cleaning up the dust/debris/grime from everything before attempting to power it up on a variac.  The instruction manual shows 2 rectifier tubes in the amplifier, a 5Z3 and an 83V (which I have never heard of).  I do not see a schematic for the amplifier chassis in the documents folder here, unless I am overlooking it, only the tuner chassis.  In any event, BOTH rectifiers in my amp are 5Z3 tubes.  Was there a version made using only 5Z3 tubes?  Or did someone substitute for the 83V?  Any harm in using it with 5Z3 tubes only?

Thank you and best regards-

Troy Taylor