1938 Philly BOL Dial

[Ray]

Made a locale purchase of this 1938 Philharmonic been a collector of consoles since the 90's this is the first Scott to come across. I see there has been a discussion already about the dial. Let me know your thoughts on this one. The warrant certificate is dated 5/5/38 and the cabinet has an engraved date of June of 1938 under the lid from what I suspect done by the cabinet maker. The amp other than the tubes and two electrolytics is all original. The receiver is also all original other than an RCA jack added to the phono out. Wondering if it was originally a dial pointer set or was it the first run of a mid 38 BOL or maybe since it has a log indicator was added or replaced around 1939 note also the knobs has wood from 1939? I know the knob situation being original is all over the place on these. Give me your thoughts Thanks.

[Ray]

more pics...

[Ray]

more pics...

[Kent King]

Ray -

Yes, it is a puzzling set. The red band and logging scale is from a much later Philly. BB-176 should have been a pointer dial set when built, it is very close to being in the first thousand Philharmonic sets built. The solder joints on the dial "tree" could be resoldered, it is hard to say. It is really not difficult to swap out a Philly face, and that is certainly a possibility here. Another possibility is that sometime later, it was sent back to Scott for an upgrade, and they changed the face at the factory. The date doesn't align well either - can you post an image of the warranty card?

Thanks!

Kent 

[Ray]

Hi Kent thanks for the reply, pic attached of the warranty certificate, what's strange is it's one family owned. I bought this from the nephew of the original owner, and he's has had it in his possession for the last 20 years. He brought it back from NJ when his uncle died. Ray

[David C. Poland]

Does appear to be a pointer dial model that was updated to the later BOL dial with logging scale - which dial was announced late 1939 for the new 1940 Philharmonic.  Scott could and sometime did update a model to later developments if requested when returned to the factory for service.

Does your red band graphics top out at 80 MC or 60 MC ?

BB-176 should be a late 1937 production pointer dial Philharmonic serial number per Kent's research. (And predates my early 1938 KK number pointer dial Philly serial number). Pointer dial hallmarks:  key hole style gold control escutcheons, pair of metal "bat wing" sometimes supplied knobs, oval bright gold magic eye escutcheons and 6 controls plus push-pull switch (record scratch suppressor) under the tuning dial. The voltage regulator VR-150 located at the rear behind the tuning Cap housing. I do not recognize the 4 brown knobs you have.

Scott documentation indicated the first BOL dial (without logging scale) was a late 1938 dial revision of a 6 control shaft pointer dial type receiver, and not many seen.

[Ray]

Hi David thanks for your help, the red TV scale goes to 60. The 4 wood knobs I thought I saw on later models when doing a google search I'll see if I can find them again. I will remove the dial scale and see if there are any clues behind it. Did the BOL models have a crystal mounted in the bezel or just have the dial scale glass with a bare bezel? Ray

[Kent King]

There is no crystal used in any of the Philharmonic sets...the dial face is just a large glass plate. I would not remove the glass, you could break it and there isn't anything to learn behind it anyway. The Philly BOL dial drives are all the same. 

I note from your pictures, the VR tube is located at the rear of the chassis, which is consistent with it originally being an earlier pointer dial set. 

Dave's question about 80 vs. 60MHz on the dial - the pointer sets went to 80MHz (not well, but hey...), with the BOL models, they limited that band to 60MHz. So an interesting test would be to see if the ultra SW band really does go up to 80MHz (which would mean the dial scale would be off). Scott wouldn't do that if they updated the set, so that would lead me to believe a later face swap by an amateur restorer. If the band really is accurate and tops out around 60MHz, then I'd expect Scott would have done it at some later point. Given the red band dial, I'd say fall 1939 or later. 

[Scott Seickel]

While my initial thoughts are this is just a 7 knob B of L set that had a readily available dial glass replacement, the May '38 date is just too early.  Looking at the chassis underside, this is definitely an early Philharmonic.  There is no way this was ever upgraded electrically.   I am going to go with a dial pointer that someone replaced the front dial assembly with a B of L dial from a junker set.  These sets are nearly 90 years old....that is a lot of time for people to tinker with them.  I wonder what was in the hole that is drilled in the front of the cabinet? 

[Norman S Braithwaite]

To clarify, the glass cover on clocks is often called a crystal.  The Philharmonic most definitely had a 7-3/4 inch shallow domed dial cover in the bezel.

Norman

[David C. Poland]

Yes - meaning the dial bezel mounted on the cabinet - not the receiver - and is shallow concave glass mounted into the bezel as Norman says. The General Cement 7 3/4 inch dial crystal  #72 is a good fit.

if your cabinet mounted bezel is missing the glass crystal, you are probably also missing the retaining spring to secure the glass. I fashioned a spring using a 3 foot "piano wire" from my ACE hardware store. This spring steel wire is very hard. I used a mallet and cold chisel to cut it to length. Used a paint can as a form against which to bend it into an approximatly the correct diameter. Put a small bend at one end as a grab tab to be able to extract the spring and fine tune the tension before risking placing the glass into the bezel. Then painted the spring gold. 

Final step is inserting the glass and then the home made spring into the bezel. hopefully, you have the zig-zag spring that secures the bezel to the cabinet's front wood panel.

How mine looks with the small gap of the spring place high in the bezel:  IMG_0679.jpeg

[Ray]

Hi Kent reading through the instruction manual they mention installing the crystal into the dial bezel, so I'm guessing both the pointer sets and the BOL dials had crystals mounted inside the bezels ii front of the flat glass dial scales? It will be a while before I get it powered up so yes it will be interesting if the dial scale will be accurate or not I'll keep everyone updated as how this mystery plays out.

Kent King said:

There is no crystal used in any of the Philharmonic sets...the dial face is just a large glass plate. I would not remove the glass, you could break it and there isn't anything to learn behind it anyway. The Philly BOL dial drives are all the same. 

I note from your pictures, the VR tube is located at the rear of the chassis, which is consistent with it originally being an earlier pointer dial set. 

Dave's question about 80 vs. 60MHz on the dial - the pointer sets went to 80MHz (not well, but hey...), with the BOL models, they limited that band to 60MHz. So an interesting test would be to see if the ultra SW band really does go up to 80MHz (which would mean the dial scale would be off). Scott wouldn't do that if they updated the set, so that would lead me to believe a later face swap by an amateur restorer. If the band really is accurate and tops out around 60MHz, then I'd expect Scott would have done it at some later point. Given the red band dial, I'd say fall 1939 or later. 

[Ray]

The hole in the front panel someone drilled and relocated the on/off toggle switch. Looks like the original long shaft switch failed and was replaced with what they had in stock a short shaft, it was too shallow for the side mount, the new one put on the front panel. I'm going to look for a long shaft switch ad repair the hole. Looks like someone untwisted the wires, cut a hole cabinet shelf and front panel to mount it upfront (aesthetically ugly) it will all be put back to original.

Scott Seickel said:

While my initial thoughts are this is just a 7 knob B of L set that had a readily available dial glass replacement, the May '38 date is just too early.  Looking at the chassis underside, this is definitely an early Philharmonic.  There is no way this was ever upgraded electrically.   I am going to go with a dial pointer that someone replaced the front dial assembly with a B of L dial from a junker set.  These sets are nearly 90 years old....that is a lot of time for people to tinker with them.  I wonder what was in the hole that is drilled in the front of the cabinet?