Scott serial numbers

[Kent King]

As most of you know, I've been gathering and analyzing Scott serial numbers for over 20 years. I have a couple requests....first, if you haven't sent me your serial numbers, please do. Also...if any of you have a confirmed date for a set/serial number, please send me that. There is a warranty tag on ebay at the moment, these are great, since they have the date and serial number on them. A letter with a date is also good confirmation. I would greatly appreciate any info you fellows can provide. I'll post more about serial numbers here in the future.

Kent

[Kent King]

KK-34 will be Nov or early Dec of 1937. Send a picture of the whole chassis if you can. As Scott said, seems most likely it is a pointer dial, but it could be a very early BOL...we don't know exactly when they introduced the changes.

Kent

[Scott Dickson]

I may have misread something.  If so, my apologies.   

Here's the only picture I have of my friend's radio.  He'll send me more pictures when he gets home.

I don't see a pointer dial... that's why I thought BOL... more later  

Scott

[Scott Seickel]

That is a much later 9 knob B of L set (and my favorite version).  So the date of that set IIRC is 1940 or 1941.  Interesting that this serial number is sandwiched between all dial pointers, but this has happened in other prefixes also.  So it seems that you can't judge the age of a set by using a serial number with documented date that is close to it as there really was no sequence.   Almost like the serial numbers were random and in later years they went back and filled in missing numbers.    The highest KK number I have is 242 and it is a pointer.  The only prefixes that seem to be dial pointers only (so far) are the single letter prefixes.   I can't make any sense of the serial numbering system other than it just seems random, otherwise you would see clear patterns emerging.   Thanks for posting this. 

[Norman S Braithwaite]

Considering the possibility of outliers there are patterns and Kent has done a good job of identifying those patterns.  Outliers can be due to at least three reasons.  1) The serial number was an unused "left over" serial number as Scott stated.  I have encountered one late Phantom with a three letter, two digit serial number indicating that the two letter, three digit numbers were likely all assigned.  Although this does not appear to be supported by Kent's registry, remember that power supply serial numbers were assigned and are not included in the registry.  2) Some sets may have been upgraded although the upgrade from pointer dial to late beam-of-light is unlikely.  More likely, the serial number tag may have been transferred to a new chassis.  3) If previously in the hands of a collector the possibility exists that the serial number tag has been swapped from another chassis.  This has happened.

Norman

[Scott Dickson]

Thanks guys.  This set was owned by the original family until a neighbor traded it for a pack of cigarettes.  No kidding, a pack of smokes. not even a carton!  Well, this is what makes the radio hobby so interesting and a bit weird.

Thanks again, Scott

[Scott Seickel]

I didn't mean to imply that all the serial numbers were random.  Clearly there are quite a few series of numbers for the same model chassis.  I only have Philharmonic numbers and can only speak for what I have.  I have been adding the chassis version to the numbers when they come up on Ebay or elsewhere.  Adding the chassis version gives one a sense of the approximate date during production when the number was assigned to a new chassis.  What appears to be random is that later chassis were sometimes assigned to serial numbers that appear in a sequence of earlier chassis.  I can't understand why gaps were left in sequences, but apparently they were.  I personally don't believe that EH Scott transferred serial number plates during an upgrade- if you had a dial pointer and wanted a 9 knob B of L, you were purchasing a complete brand new chassis.  This is not an upgrade that is reasonable to make.  I also think that collectors exchanging serial number plates is exceedingly rare.  Then we have different models that cross over into other prefixes.  (I don't have the data for other models, but rely on what Kent has said in the past)  There are plenty of unique prefixes they could have used for newer models but the chose to use existing ones. 

So what I am seeing with the Philharmonic as a result of me adding the model subtype to each serial number is that the numbers that were once thought to be chronological might not be so, but I need more data added to these serial numbers to confirm with certainty.

Only a small fraction of the sets out there will ever have an actual production date attached to them as the paperwork for most is long lost.  The best way around this is to add the variations of each model to get a sense of chronological order. 

I categorize the subtypes in my list as follows:  Dial pointer, 7 knob B of L, 9 knob B of L, 9 knob red dial B of L, AM/FM.  I might add logging scale if it has it, but I don't consider a logging scale to be a subtype. 

We may never know if there was any rhyme or reason to the numbering system. 

[Kevin Christopher]

Kent,

Kevin Christopher here. I purchased a Scott Allwave Deluxe with Electrola at an auction in November 2021. It has serial number R 80. There are some written notes on the chassis bottom plate which seem to indicate it may have been originally purchased on 1-30-34. I see the entry "Mass" there as well which leads me to believe it may have been purchased or owned by a gentleman in Massachusetts. I have attached a couple pictures.

I am in Nova Scotia, Canada.

-Kevin

[Kent King]

Thanks, I didn't have that number. The date would be about right, the Deluxe was sold until the AW15 was introduced a few months later. I only include dates if we have the warranty card or a sales receipt, but made a special note on that date. I have no other dates in that prefix, so I can't judge other than to say it's about right.

Kent

Kevin Christopher said:

Kent,

Kevin Christopher here. I purchased a Scott Allwave Deluxe with Electrola at an auction in November 2021. It has serial number R 80. There are some written notes on the chassis bottom plate which seem to indicate it may have been originally purchased on 1-30-34. I see the entry "Mass" there as well which leads me to believe it may have been purchased or owned by a gentleman in Massachusetts. I have attached a couple pictures.

I am in Nova Scotia, Canada.

-Kevin

[Kent King]

I've been busy of late and haven't had a chance to comment on the earlier discussions. I can tell you there is absolutely an understandable pattern to the serial numbers. If you give me a number, I can tell you what model it is without doubt. Variations on the models are another issue. I don't have detailed tracking on that - the typical collector doesn't know the details needed to identify the specific variation and I get a LOT of bad information. So I didn't keep it. Best example: I cannot tell you all how many AW15 sets are reported as an AW12 because there are 12 tubes on the tuner chassis. 

OK, so briefly - it has become apparent in recent years that the single letter prefixes were assigned chronologically working upward from A. Multiple prefixes were being produced at the same time, but there is clearly a flow to the dates working up the alphabet. Within a given prefix, the dates are chronological. It's even simpler than all that: for <most> prefixes, a serial number under 250 is an AW12, from 250 to 450 an AW15, and 450 and up are AW23s. The late prefixes (U-Z) break this numbering - and there are NO AW15s in these prefixes except a few in Z. Why, we will never know. 

The double letter prefixes are assigned around models. A prefix is either all one model, or divided into blocks of models, never more than 3, most just have two blocks. For example, RR is all Philharmonic sets, and PP is all Phantoms. They also split on specific numbers - most "blocks" break at number 250...

There are a very few outliers. They could be original mistakes. They could be swapped tags - don't assume it was done recently, it could have happened a long time ago too. And last but not least: we KNOW the factory did updates and mods on some sets returned for repair. So we can't get too detailed on changes, especially sets like the AW15 - if it went in, it might have gotten some of the updates leaving us to ponder the differences. AW23s got a lot of updates too.

Kent

[Kent King]

Finally - here are some numbers on what we have today:

Model     # Reported      #Produced (est)

AW23            551              5650

AW12            239              4675

Phantom        317              3900

AW15             264              3725

Philharmonic  378              3730

16/18            109              1530

Laureate          41                900

Masterpiece    58                 740

Super12          52                 720

Although folks aren't always as interested in the late models (Masterpiece, SuperXII, Laureate), these are some of the scarcest Scott sets out there...

Kent

[Norman S Braithwaite]

Thanks for the update Kent.  Taking this one step farther, if there are 25 serial numbers reported for AW-27 sets, production of the AW-27 sets can be estimated as approximately 5% of AW-23 production or approximately 275 sets.

Norman 

[David Wilson]

Norm ... In comparing the AW 27 survival numbers of 25 to the high-end Zenith 1000 Z Stratosphere where Zenith's published records show that they produced only 350 of their 1000 Zs. There are to date around 53 serial number sets that have been recored out the 350 1000 Zs produced. The survival rate of the 1000 Z is more that double the AW 27. Based on this I think the the production on the AW 27 in much lower, perhaps under 200 sets made. 

Norman S Braithwaite said:

Thanks for the update Kent.  Taking this one step farther, if there are 25 serial numbers reported for AW-27 sets, production of the AW-27 sets can be estimated as approximately 5% of AW-23 production or approximately 275 sets.

Norman