Scott serial numbers

[Kent King]

As most of you know, I've been gathering and analyzing Scott serial numbers for over 20 years. I have a couple requests....first, if you haven't sent me your serial numbers, please do. Also...if any of you have a confirmed date for a set/serial number, please send me that. There is a warranty tag on ebay at the moment, these are great, since they have the date and serial number on them. A letter with a date is also good confirmation. I would greatly appreciate any info you fellows can provide. I'll post more about serial numbers here in the future.

Kent

[David Wilson]

Great stuff here Kent thanks for sharing!

I agree the higher surviving rates on the higher cost Scott radios set had something to do with the owners keeping these radio for a much longer period of time than a lower priced radios. I also fell a big reason the AW23,  Philharmonic and the Special sets had the higher survival rates were because they were full-range, Hi-Fi sets. These advanced sets were produced by Scott with their eye to the future and perhaps Scott engineer Murray Clay's background, coming from working at RCA's where that company was developing and selling the first broadcast transmitters that broadcasts in the full-range, Hi-Fi which is 30 Cycle to 16,000 cycles. These Scott high-dollar, full-range, Hi-Fi sets were designed with the advance knowledge of broadcasting in full-range, Hi-Fi was coming. In the beginning, this new advance-sound broadcasting reception was limited to the major U.S. markets where RCA had sold and installed their first full-range transmitters. Many of these early full-range, Hi-Fi broadcast markets were in the same markets Scott located their solons in, New York City, Chicago, Detroit and LA. These high-end Scott sets also delivered full-range, Hi-Fi when playing a good record player through them, another reason to keep these sets longer,  It took years for full-range, Hi-Fi broadcasting to spread across the U.S. So, these early, high-dollar Scott full-range Hi-Fi sets not only available in really nice upper-in cabinets, but were ahead of their time, producing the best sound available from their time. These Scott owners would have been hard to replace their radios with something better until the mid-50s when Hi-Fi technology evolved. For all these reasons I feel that's why more of these Scott radios survived than others Scott set. Also, Kent can you explain the difference in your updated Scott estimated production numbers? Thanks! David

Kent King said:

To the discussion on survival %, I will give this:

Set              Estimated Known    %SurvivalSet 

AW23          5307        551          10.38

AW12          3963        239             6.03

Phantom      3457        317            9.17

AW15           3322        264            7.95

Philharmonic 2970       378            12.73

16/18          1396        109            7.81

Laureate         883          41            4.64

Super12         642          52            8.10

Masterpiece    512         58             11.33

FM Tuner        132           9             6.82

Special              21         10            47.6

The average survival rate is 8.18% - call it 8% for general discussion. This is based on <known serial numbers>, not the "blocks" defined in my previous post...Obviously, the numbers would change for the block production estimates..

One factor I think contributes to survival is cost...the higher priced sets seem to do better, if you paid that much for a radio, would you throw it out?'

I use the 8% number as the average, although the block calculation is closer to 7%...

Kent

[David C. Poland]

No set production info for prewar Scotts has been found. And there are numerous alpha prefixes

But appears a prefix continue in use in ascending numerical order, with a clean break for the next model. That is, for example, no AW-12 serial number is higher than the lowest AW-15 number in any prefix.

Kent's now has just over 2000 total reported serial numbers with various serial alpha prefixs, as reported by Scott owners, seen at auction, or on eBay, etc. That is enough to make some educated guesses.

*

This is NOT Kent's actual data, but is an illustration of Kent's process to estimate production.

Take reported receivers with serial number prefix E.

For AW-12 lowest reported number, say E-67. and highest say E-250.  evidently 183 sets

For AW-15 lowest reported number, say E-282 and highest say E-407  evidently 125 sets

For AW-23 lowest reported number, say E-457 and highest say E-632  evidently 175 sets

For Philharmonic ... lowest number , say E-660 and highest say E-847  evidently 187 sets

*

No single digit suffix numbers reported have been  less than #50, but several in the in the 50's have been reported. So assume the the first E  number was E-50. And L-50, and N-50 etc various prefixes.

So for the AW-12,  #67-#50 = another 17 sets, boosting the AW-total  183+17=200.

*

Then deal with the number gaps, such as between the highest AW-12 of E-250 and the lowest AW-15 of E-282. But perhaps we may eventually learn, say, E-264 was the last AW-12 and E-265 the first AW-15 for Prefix E.

Meanwhile, Kent has is a gap of reported sets #282-#250 = another 32 sets, so, arbitrarily assign half 16 additional AW-12's thus 200+16=216. And for AW-15 sets, 125+16=141 sets for prefix E estimated for prefix E.

*

Every time a new serial number appears outside the existing range, say AW-12 with Serial #256 appears.

1)  Increase the AW-12 count by 6: AW-12 count of 200+6=207  AW-12's for prefix E.

2) Now the gap between AW-12 and AW-15 serial numbers is reduced by 6 sets: #282-#256=26, so assign 13  to AW-12 total and 13 to the AW-15 total. This raises the AW-12 sets 207+13=220 estimated. instead of 216. Also, reduced the estimated count for AW-15s thus: 125 +13=138 instead of 141.

3)  But AW-15 is also inflated by half the gap between #407 and the AW-23 low serial number E-257.and so on.

*

There are serial number issues to allow for, such as when Scott jumped AW-23 model serial number to 500 with a major change for the IF amp.

Kent has a very complicated spread sheet covering all the single letter and double letter serial numbers reported. And every time a new out of range serial number is found, the set count estimate becomes a bit more accurate for each model. Hence why Kent started the serial number thread on this Scott website.

But the point is, Kents production estimates for each model is extrapolated from sets found.

[David Wilson]

David ...Thanks for your detailed explanation here, very helpful!  I've seen this same method used to project jukebox manufacture's production numbers on jukeboxes, remote wall-boxes and speakers. In the case of the jukeboxes the numbers collected are much lower making their projections not as accurate. Kent's large samples of serial numbers is the key for all this being an accurate prediction of what was actually produced. This is a ton of work, very impressive! My hat's off to Kent and all of you that have put in the many hours on this research!

David C. Poland said:

No set production info for prewar Scotts has been found. And there are numerous alpha prefixes

But appears a prefix continue in use in ascending numerical order, with a clean break for the next model. That is, for example, no AW-12 serial number is higher than the lowest AW-15 number in any prefix.

Kent's now has just over 2000 total reported serial numbers with various serial alpha prefixs, as reported by Scott owners, seen at auction, or on eBay, etc. That is enough to make some educated guesses.

*

This is NOT Kent's actual data, but is an illustration of Kent's process to estimate production.

Take reported receivers with serial number prefix E.

For AW-12 lowest reported number, say E-67. and highest say E-250.  evidently 183 sets

For AW-15 lowest reported number, say E-282 and highest say E-407  evidently 125 sets

For AW-23 lowest reported number, say E-457 and highest say E-632  evidently 175 sets

For Philharmonic ... lowest number , say E-660 and highest say E-847  evidently 187 sets

*

No single digit suffix numbers reported have been  less than #50, but several in the in the 50's have been reported. So assume the the first E  number was E-50. And L-50, and N-50 etc various prefixes.

So for the AW-12,  #67-#50 = another 17 sets, boosting the AW-total  183+17=200.

*

Then deal with the number gaps, such as between the highest AW-12 of E-250 and the lowest AW-15 of E-282. But perhaps we may eventually learn, say, E-264 was the last AW-12 and E-265 the first AW-15 for Prefix E.

Meanwhile, Kent has is a gap of reported sets #282-#250 = another 32 sets, so, arbitrarily assign half 16 additional AW-12's thus 200+16=216. And for AW-15 sets, 125+16=141 sets for prefix E estimated for prefix E.

*

Every time a new serial number appears outside the existing range, say AW-12 with Serial #256 appears.

1)  Increase the AW-12 count by 6: AW-12 count of 200+6=207  AW-12's for prefix E.

2) Now the gap between AW-12 and AW-15 serial numbers is reduced by 6 sets: #282-#256=26, so assign 13  to AW-12 total and 13 to the AW-15 total. This raises the AW-12 sets 207+13=220 estimated. instead of 216. Also, reduced the estimated count for AW-15s thus: 125 +13=138 instead of 141.

3)  But AW-15 is also inflated by half the gap between #407 and the AW-23 low serial number E-257.and so on.

*

There are serial number issues to allow for, such as when Scott jumped AW-23 model serial number to 500 with a major change for the IF amp.

Kent has a very complicated spread sheet covering all the single letter and double letter serial numbers reported. And every time a new out of range serial number is found, the set count estimate becomes a bit more accurate for each model. Hence why Kent started the serial number thread on this Scott website.

But the point is, Kents production estimates for each model is extrapolated from sets found.

[Scott Seickel]

Thanks Kent.  Seeing the "whole picture" as you outlined above clears up a lot of questions. 

[John OBriant]

I currently own a Scott Super 12. Serial number QQ-142.

[Kent King]

Thanks...I've got that set in the database.

John OBriant said:

I currently own a Scott Super 12. Serial number QQ-142.

[Auroraoldradios]

The AW12 (no cabinet) I brought home today is H82.

[Kent King]

Thank you!

[Kevin Christopher]

Hi Kent,

Kevin Christopher here again. I recently purchased another Scott Allwave 12 Deluxe with Phonograph. The serial number is W148, picture attached. I don't know a lot about the history of this radio, but I bought it from a collector in Newfoundland who shipped it to me here in Nova Scotia. He bought it in Ontario about ten years ago.

The phonograph in this unit is made by Astatic Microphone Co. The cabinet is Olympia.

I hope this information is of some help.

-Kevin

[Norman S Braithwaite]

Thanks for posting.  Can you post a photo of the phonograph?  Astatic made tonearms and pickups but not complete phonographs.  Some early Scott consoles were equipped with turntables assembled from off the shelf products (motor, platter, tonearm, needle cups, etc) by Scott Radio Laboratories.  Given the Astatic components I suspect that is what you have.

Norman

[Kevin Christopher]

Norman S Braithwaite said:

Thanks for posting.  Can you post a photo of the phonograph?  Astatic made tonearms and pickups but not complete phonographs.  Some early Scott consoles were equipped with turntables assembled from off the shelf products (motor, platter, tonearm, needle cups, etc) by Scott Radio Laboratories.  Given the Astatic components I suspect that is what you have.

Norman

Actually Astaic is the tone arm. I don't see any name on the motor or platter. Here are pictures

[Norman S Braithwaite]

The phonograph was built up from available parts.  The tonearm and crystal cartridge might be replacements.  Other Scott assembled phonographs I have seen from the time used a very heavy magnetic pickup, a very good reason to replace the tonearm and pickup.  I believe the Astatic tonearm and crystal pickup were introduced about the same time the AW-12D was discontinued so there is a possibility it is original.  If so, it would be one of the very first crystal cartridge phonographs ever made.

Norman