Schematic for Dividing Network Box (Phantom)

[Joe Miller]

I believe this box goes with my recent Phantom Deluxe acquisition (rather than the Phantom Deluxe AM/FM)

Anyone know where I can find a schematic for it?

Thanks,
Joe

[David C. Poland]

Some orientation on the Phantom. Helpful to have the new Scott guide 2nd eddition.

Caveats - I only have the 1st version Phantom in my collection.

Also - Riders Vol 14 and Vol 15 for revised info on the US versions of 4 Phantoms you may find.

Also - Nostalgia Air website has Riders info.

Sept 1938 -Introduced as the PHANTOM - a 19 tube model (6 tube amp 13 tube receiver.) Riders 14

  - 6 controls plus tuning knob. No voltage VR-150 regulator. Slide rule dial.

  -  6V6 output tubes. Interstage transformer separates the 6J6 drivers from the 6V6's. 

  - speaker 12 inch (Magnavox) octal plug, 2 field coils. (Same used for Models Sixteen and Masterpiece)

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Aug 1939   PHANTOM DELUXE  20 tube, VR-150 voltage regulator added. (Rider 15 Phantom revised)

May have a 15" speaker but same field coils and octal plug - or optional 3 speaker system. May have optional 5th band for ultra high SW/TV in red or white lettering.  Amp same appearance but 5Y3 rectifiers .

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February 1940 - AM PHANTOM DELUXE 20 tube with logging scale,    (Riders 15 as Revised Phantom Deluxe)

     -receiver appearance same but 3rd IF changed to 6B8 pentode/diode and 6H6 repurposed as noise limiter.

     - revised amp- change to 5U4 rectifiers & 6L6 output tubes - now the 6J5s next to output tubes.

       - revised 12 or 15" speaker - single tapped field (like 1940 Philharmonic speaker), 7 pin plug.

        -optional 4 unit speaker system includes an outboard crossover.

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March 1940    28 tube    FM PHANTOM DELUXE - bigger asymmetrical receiver with FM circuits on right side.

      - two magic eyes.

      - Same amp and speaker(s)  as 1940 AM Phantom Deluxe w logging scale.

Check Scott site set folder for Phantom.       

[Joe Miller]

Hi Dave,

I ordered the new edition of the Scott Book.  Can't wait to get it.

Thanks for the info.  I have all 4 of these Phantoms.  Now I can figure out which amp goes with the logging scale version and which one goes with the red lettered one.

I still haven't been able to find a schematic for the dividing network (see picture above attached to the original post) for the Phantom when it uses the multi-speaker output configuration.  Any idea where I might find that?

Joe

[Kent King]

Joe - This might help... - Kent

[Joe Miller]

Thanks Kent

Joe

[David C. Poland]

Forgot an obvious visual, the later PHANTOM models have a 7th control located below the tuning dial.

Tweeter info:   (I had occasion to browse this topic a few weeks ago)

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Earlier Phantoms and Philharmonics (before FM model introduction) merely used a low frequency blocking cap (2 MFD ) as a crossover in series with the optional tweeter pair, as per those model circuit diagrams.  

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For the optional 4 unit speaker system introduced in 1940,  refer to the Riders under "FM Tuner" -  Riders volume 14,  page 12,14 and 16 for drawings. This configuration was likely designed for the FM Philharmonic and FM Phantom but, I suppose, could apply to the standard (non-FM) models if so ordered. This system uses 8 ohm speakers - only the large 12 or 15 inch speaker has a field coil, tweeters are PM with 2 pin plugs. The crossover main cable plug fits the 7 pin speaker socket on the amp. Note there is an additional separate 4 wire cable from the crossover back to the receiver for a band switch wafer that switches the tweeters "on" for the FM band.  The crossover also has provision for a remote speaker. 

The 1941 Scott Laureate uses a similar arrangement  for the optional 15 inch Magnavox with single coaxial mounted tweeter. That crossover looks about the  same but for a 25Z5 rectifier tube to power the tweeter field coil. (I have this Laureate model) Find diagrams in the Riders pages for Laureate and Laureate Revised Riders volume 14 and 15.

Hope this helps (it expanded my understanding.)

[Joe Miller]

Kent,

The legend for socket G is illegible.  Do you know what it should read?

Thanks,

Joe

[David C. Poland]

Joe - the part "G" is for the tweeter plug (2 pins for audio signal  and 2 pins for the tweeter field coil).

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I overlooked opening the attachment photo to your initial query. Your outboard crossover with rectifier tube is exactly like mine for a Scott LAUREATE, the last prewar design model, an AM/FM/SW radio using 6L6 output tubes mounted on the receiver.  The Laureate amp held the only the rectifier tubes, power transformer and 10 pin Jones socket for the 38 ohm speaker (either the standard speaker or the coax version with crossover) and a 12 pin Jones socket for the set cable.

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Your crossover includes the output transformer for the coaxial version 15 inch speaker for the Laureate model radio and the rectifier to power the tweeter field coil. The single tweeter is suspended inside the big cone and I believe is the only Scott field coil tweeter since those for the 1935-7 HI fi 23 tube model.   I think it unlikely your crossover for coax speaker was intended for any other Scott model.

The Phantom 4 unit speaker system crossover is different because it has no rectifier and supports 2 PM tweeters with all 3 speakers being 8 ohm. The 4 unit speaker system is only for the late Phantom with 6L6 output tubes (or the Philharmonic). Earlier Phantom with 6V6 output tubes used an optional PM tweeter pair with no crossover other than a cap in series with the tweeter pair.

[Norman S Braithwaite]

David:

You may want to examine the schematic that Kent posted again.  To me it looks like plug G is for 110-vac to operate the 35Z5 and provide the field coil current.

Norman

[David C. Poland]

Norman - Thank you. So much for not pulling out my Laureate crossover to examine it more closely. (I have not restored my Laureate, yet)  My Laureate crossover matches Kent's crossover diagram right down to the 2nd tweeter socket, the 10 pin Jones plug on the cable to amp.

And the small "G" plug I now see fits the small socket on the back of my late BOL Remote Philharmonic project receiver (and my Laureate, too) to power the Crossover rectifier.

I now see while we included the 4 unit speaker system in the new Scott guide, but overlooked including this other version 4 unit set  with crossover with rectifier into the new Scott guide. 

Norman - do you know if Scott revised the optional 4 unit speaker system for FIELD COIL tweeters and this version crossover with rectifier in, say, 1941 for both the Phantom and Philharmonic FM models?  Is the key to recognition the Jones plug sockets on the amp?  If so, then perhaps my Laureate coax with one tweeter is a kind of stripped down version that is directly interchangeable with the 2 tweeter version for Phantom and Philharmonic amps having Jones sockets. 

That also helps explain the existence of the 6 tube rechromed chassis I found which had been cut for Jones plug sockets for both the speaker and suitable for rebuilding for either late Phantom or Philharmonic.

[Norman S Braithwaite]

Dave:

I don't know if this field coil tweeter version of the four unit speaker system was employed in the Phantom or Philharmonic.  I am certain that it was used in the Laureate as I have a fully original Laureate chassis and speaker set using this crossover, a pair of field coil cone tweeters, and the 12-inch woofer.  I have yet to encounter a pre-war Scott with the coaxially mounted tweeter but I know they exist.  I do not know if they were standard equipment or an option but I suspect the former.  We know that the 4-unit speaker system was an option.

Norman

[David C. Poland]

The Scott literature research Kent and I did for the Laureate indicated it initially included a 12 inch flange mount speaker.  I have a "Special July Price List ..." introducing the "New" Scott Laureate, on yellow stock stating a "12 inch " speaker which is pictured along with receiver and power supply. 

Scott News Vol 13 No 1 dated 8/6/41 has a feature article on the Laureate. It pictures as standard a 15 inch flange mount speaker. Also an optional coaxial 15 inch speaker (pictured)  with crossover dividing network (not pictured) for an additional $19.50 to increase high frequency reproduction to 15,000 cycles. My Laureate came with the coaxial speaker and crossover with rectifier. It has the small socket on the receiver for the crossover's small plug to power the rectifier.  

My later AM Philharmonic BOL with logging scale and remote control features also has the small socket on the receiver back that accommodates the same crossover plug to power a crossover rectifier. I have just never seen a later Philly with the 4 unit speaker system - but now know to look closely the next time I see a late Philharmonic.

Joe - hope this sheds more light as you sort through your Scott items.

[Norman S Braithwaite]

Dave:

I once owned an all original AM-FM Philharmonic with the four unit speaker system.  The woofer was a 12-inch Jensen speaker and going from recollection, the cross-over did not have the 35Z5 tube hence the tweeters were PM.  This set was in one of the side by side radio-phono consoles and I sold it to a fellow in Seattle about 15 years ago.  I clearly remember the tweeter cutout switch on this set as it is where I learned of the switch engaging the tweeters for FM only.

Norman