Philharmonic Laureate Grand oddity

[Alex R. Whitaker]

All,

I just purchased a Philharmonic in a Laureate Grand from Stanton Auctions, last week.  I noticed something odd about it, right off the bat.  It has a 7 knob Philharmonic chassis, which should have a pointer dial.  However, it has the next year's "Red Dial," with no pointer.  The "Red Dial" Philharmonics are 9 knobs (at least all the ones I've ever seen are).   It has a serial number of KK-243 (Kent, for your database), which seems to point to early 1938 (?)  Has anyone else seen another one of these?  Or, did the original dial get broken and someone put a "new" dial on it, either in 1938, or a collector did that later.  I will probably put a pointer dial Philharmonic in it, to duplicate the picture with E.H. Scott on the cover of "Scott News."  That has always been my dream set.  Pictures of the chassis and serial number are enclosed.  

[Kent King]

Alex -

I had noticed that even before it sold. There are really only two possibilities: (1) the first "red band" sets still had 7 knobs, or (2) the entire face and tuning mechanism was swapped at some point. The only way to tell will be to compare the internal wiring of the chassis with the 1937 model and the later Deluxe diagrams. The serial number does lean into early (first half) of 1938, so it may be a transitional set. If so, it's an oddity. 

On a related note - if you want a true pointer set for it, I have a chassis available. I'd consider a swap if you are interested.

Kent

[Norman S Braithwaite]

The pointer dial sets had a circle of light that followed behind the dial pointer on the selected band.  The beam-of-light dials had a narrow arrow/line of light that identified the station on the selected band.  If you see a circle of light identifying the station, it is a pointer dial chassis with a beam-of-light dial.  Otherwise it is either an early seven knob beam-of-light set (they did make them) or much less likely a pointer dial set with the entire dial assembly swapped on to it.

Norman

[Alex R. Whitaker]

Thanks to both of you for your answers.  Norm, I never thought of that angle to figure out if the set had originally been a pointer dial.  I'll have to power up the chassis here in the next week or two (when I get a chance) to check that.  I was thinking the same as both of you......that it was either a transitional set, or someone had swapped a dial out when the original was broken.  I did notice that the frequency ranges on the pointer dial and the red dial are the same, and are pretty much spaced the same.  Kent, I may take you up on the swap offer.  I'll talk to you about it off forum. 

[Kent King]

You know...you can't put a Beam of Light dial glass onto a pointer tuning drive - because the pointer shaft sticks through! So, the drive is definitely a BOL drive, and unless the entire face was swapped, this is probably a transitional set built in 1938. 

Kent

[David C. Poland]

FYI - my pointer Philly is KK-237 and has a Feb 1938 date on a part inside, so mine may have been assembled well into 1938 and is just a few numbers before your serial number in the K series. 

Page 45 of the Scott Collectors Guide 2 nd Edition show the variation 2  being the first BOL Philharmonic with the 6 keyhole shaped escutcheons, that appears gold plated like the pointer Philly escutcheons. My Christmas 1938 price list shows a BOL Philharmonic with 6 keyhole escutcheons and 6 controls, no logging scale,   plus tuning nobs and scratch suppression button control below the tuning knobs. Thus a pointer type receiver with the new BOL dial.

Or perhaps returned to factory for a retrofit to the later dial, because the new BOL dial lacked any logging scale. (I should have looked at your photo before writing most of this.)

 Is that not what you have acquired Alex??

[David C. Poland]

a related point to note - where is the VR tube located. Mine is directly behind the tuning condense. Later receivers relocated the VR to allow the for remote control housing option. 

[Alex R. Whitaker]

Dave,

See my attached photo of my Laureate Grand's front panel.  I removed the dial glass and escutcheon for shipping when I brought it back from Michigan, so it's not currently installed.  Also, I checked the chassis, and the VR tube is located behind my tuning capacitor.  My red dial BOL does have a logging scale, so it may not be an early 1938?  However, my front panel is exactly as you described.  The mystery deepens......

[Scott Seickel]

The 7 knob B of L was introduced in late 1938.  The 9 knob sets were introduced in Spring of 1939.  The 7 knob B of L sets are relatively uncommon as they were not produced very long in-between the dial pointers and 9 knob sets.  The VR tube was moved to the front on late 7 knob sets, yet yours is in the rear.   This could be a 7 knob B of L that someone just replaced the glass on.   I am sure that Scott didn't want to throw away inventory as the sets evolved, so all parts got used.  This is one Philharmonic variation that I have not been able to acquire. 

[Alex R. Whitaker]

Scott,  

After reading Dave Poland's comment about the BOL red dial Philharmonics with 7 knobs, I have come to the conclusion that mine has simply had the dial assembly replaced by a collector.  Dave says, per the Scott catalog, that the early 7 knob red dial BOL sets had no logging scale.  Mine has the logging scale, and the early VR tube placement, so I think that points to a collector replacing the early pointer dial that was, more than likely, original to my set.  Your thoughts?  

[Kent King]

Alex -

If you can, get a photo down behind the dial assembly. I'd like to see the mounting and the wiring. Thanks!
Kent

[David C. Poland]

Require more than just a later glass dial in a pointer or early BOL production frame.  Alex's dial photo shows (through the logging window) the logging scale numbers embossed on both the stationary and moving sections of the metal frame. Also, note his ultra high TV audio band dial stops at 60 MC, whereas my pointer reaches 80 MC. I do not know if the early BOL dial went to 80 MC.

Seems more likely, either 1) a late 1930's factory update, which Scott had a history of doing that decade, when a radio came in for service.  ... or 2) a collector's replacement dial assembly from a donor chassis, perhaps due to damaged original dial. 

Replacement dials would have been a considerable problem until repos were made in more decades. Imagine trying to find, say, a new Chicago version glass pointer dial some 50 years ago when the factory was long gone and most Philharmonics either sat in a collector's hoard or were still collecting dust in a private home. Also, as a further complication, the Philharmonic standard pointer dial had graphics for 6 bands.  But the Los Angeles, New York and Chicago pointer dials had graphics for a 7th "band" displaying regional station call letters,  complete with an additional moving dial lamp to illuminate a circle by the call letters upon reaching that AM frequency.  Guess if I was faced with a damaged Philharmonic dial 60 years ago, I would settle for any dial assembly I could find and not be too concerned if it was the correct version. 

With Alex's serial number being just a few numbers higher than mine, seems a pointer dial likely originally.

[Scott Seickel]

I don't think the logging scale was introduced until at least early 1940.  So someone installing a later front dial assembly makes sense.  Some good pictures would be nice.  It could have started life as a dial pointer or a B of L, but I would guess it was a dial pointer.  The 7 knob B of L's I have seen all have the VR tube at the front.  My bets are that this was done in recent years, but a good inspection should reveal clues.